Q&A With Robert Korn of Carlyle Aviation Partners
Robert Korn, vice chairman and co-founder of Carlyle Aviation Partners, reflects on a 30-year journey from being a staff accountant to co-founding one of the world’s largest aircraft leasing platforms, now Carlyle Aviation Partners. In this candid conversation, he shares lessons in leadership, resilience through market cycles and why the human element still drives success in a data-heavy, global industry.
Jetrader: You’ve had a long and distinguished career in aviation finance, from BF Goodrich to Pegasus Aviation and ultimately co-founding Apollo Aviation, now Carlyle Aviation Partners. What initially drew you to the aviation sector, and what has kept you engaged?
Robert Korn (RK): I started in the industry by chance. After graduating from UCLA in 1991, I moved home to San Diego. At that time, jobs were few and far between, and I was lucky to be hired as a staff accountant at Rohr Industries, which was an independent Fortune 500 making nacelles, thrust reversers and pylons for Boeing, McDonnell Douglas and Airbus. I benefited from the big-company training and experiences that aren’t readily available at small firms. After completing my MBA a few years later, and subsequent to Rohr’s acquisition by BF Goodrich, I started in a new business project we named the Super 27 Program, which set out to replace the original engines on the 727 aircraft with new, more fuel efficient, cleaner and quieter Pratt & Whitney JT8D-2219 engines. By 1996, I had become the marketing director and began traveling the world to promote the program globally. I met many of the important industry figures early on, some of whom have left the industry and others (like Jep Thornton, Pete Seidlitz, Doug Kaprielian and Abdol Moabery) who remain great friends 30 years later. It was during this time that I met Rich Wiley, who became my customer and then a key mentor in my career.
At Rich’s behest, I joined Pegasus Aviation in a vice president of marketing role in 1999, which catapulted me into aircraft leasing. At that time, Pegasus managed close to 200 aircraft and was the largest privately held leasing company, owned almost exclusively by Rich. We were working at a rapidfire pace, and the culture was high energy. I was completely immersed in the industry alongside many talented colleagues who became some of the biggest forces in our business (including Bob Brown, Will Hudson, Troy Tollen, Gerry Aubrey, Alfredo Saria and Sergio Gonzalez, to name a few). The business of aircraft leasing was in its infancy and growing quickly. It was thrilling. Every day was — as it continues to be — different and exciting.
Incidentally, my first exposure to aircraft leasing was at UCLA in a business tax class taught by Bob Untracht, who was the tax partner with a then-new aircraft leasing venture called the International Lease Finance Corporation (ILFC) started by another former UCLA student, Steven Udvar-Hazy.
I enjoy the continuing entrepreneurial spirit of Carlyle Aviation and seeing the way it has grown into a renowned industry player. I stay engaged because of the amazing people we interact with and the passion the industry elicits.
Jetrader: Looking back on your career, what was the most pivotal moment or decision that set you on the path to co-founding Apollo Aviation Group in 2002?
RK: Bill Hoffman and I founded Apollo Aviation Group, Carlyle Aviation’s predecessor, in February 2002, five months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The attacks had caused widespread distress in the aviation industry, leading many airlines to go bankrupt or struggle to pay their rents. It had also led many lessors, including Pegasus, to reduce staff significantly, which affected me. 9/11 triggered wholesale fleet retirements of hundreds of 727s, 737-200s, DC9s, A300s, DC10s and 747s. Bill and I saw an opportunity to take advantage of the unprecedented dislocation in the market for end-of-life assets.
As the opportunity developed, we purchased our first assets in early 2003. Those first engines were immediately disassembled, and the next were traded to operators. As the cycle progressed toward a slow recovery, we started to refurbish and then lease engines. We then expanded with our first institutional capital pool into aircraft disassembly in 2004 and ultimately acquired our first leased aircraft in 2005.
Jetrader: When you and Bill Hoffman took full control of Apollo in 2017 and subsequently became part of Carlyle in 2018, what were your primary strategic goals? Have they evolved now that Carlyle Aviation Partners is a fully integrated part of Carlyle’s global credit platform?
RK: After buying back our shares and regaining full control of Apollo Aviation in 2017, Bill and I were looking to expand our reach in the industry. We refined our long-term strategic goals, which included expanding our footprint in the aviation industry and competing more effectively in the international aircraft leasing sector. A strategic, long-term investment partner could help us sustain our growth trajectory and support our vision for the company’s future.
Commercial aviation as an asset class has seen increased participation from institutional investors, particularly over the last decade. When one of our friends introduced us to Carlyle in 2018, it became quickly apparent that joining their global credit business would be mutually beneficial. As we’ve continued to grow under their umbrella, the recurring question from Carlyle has been “how can we help?” rather than “here’s how we want you to do things,” allowing us to preserve our agility while accessing greater resources. Our integration within Carlyle enhances our capabilities, providing valuable intelligence as we navigate complex international situations. We also believe we are well-positioned to capitalize on the expansion of the commercial aviation sector as demand trends upward both over the short- and long-term.
Jetrader: Carlyle Aviation Partners has grown from a midlife aircraft trading company to a full-scale operating lessor. What factors contributed most to this transformation, and where do you see the biggest opportunities for continued growth?
RK: Throughout our 20-plus-year history, we have been a partner to commercial airlines globally, providing financing both through cycles of growth and also through disruption. What we’ve consistently aimed to do is build out our capabilities to be able to offer aircraft financing through the entire life cycle, from pre-delivery to end-of-life.
Starting out with a focus on aircraft disassembly endowed us with a strong knowledge of the underlying metal value. We believe that this sets us apart from many other companies. We don’t rely solely on appraiser numbers but draw on our own proprietary data, which we are constantly refreshing.
Through the years, we’ve added a midlife leasing business, a securities business and a few apertures that allow us to focus on financing new technology aircraft.
When we approach an airline, we are prepared to discuss options from pre-manufacture to sale-leaseback to mid- and end-of-life fleet management and components. At our core, we rely on our earliest experiences and the knowledge gained from disassembling aircraft back to 2003. We aim to continue to grow to support our airline customers’ needs.
Jetrader: Your company was the most active buyer in 2018, acquiring 83 aircraft for US$1.6 billion. Given today’s market conditions, how has your acquisition strategy evolved?
RK: Over the last few years, we executed a relatively aggressive growth stance through major acquisitions. As our industry absorbs recent news regarding tariffs and settles into a rapidly changing global backdrop, we are working to understand where new opportunities will lie and focusing on opportunistic acquisitions in specific market segments. We have also continued to be particularly attentive to the midlife aircraft segment, where we believe potential equity gaps will develop over the next year that could create attractive buying opportunities with enhanced returns. The current environment features hundreds of midlife aircraft available on the market, potentially without sufficient capital to absorb them all, which may create favorable conditions for wellcapitalized buyers.
Jetrader: Carlyle Aviation Partners has a strong presence in the assetbacked securitization (ABS) space. Can you walk us through your approach to ABS and how it has shaped your portfolio strategy?
RK: Our leadership in the aircraft ABS market represents a core element of our financial strategy. Most recently, in February 2025, we closed our 17th aircraft portfolio transaction (AASET 2025-1), marking the first commercial aircraft ABS issuance of the year and signaling a strong market opening. What distinguishes our more recent ABS approach is innovation in structure. We pioneered a master-trust structure, first utilized in our AASET 2024-1 transaction and expanded in AASET 2025-1. This allows us to finance previously identified aircraft at our option, offering larger asset pools with more diversification.
Incorporating ABS structures in our approach to financing complements our acquisition strategy. These securitizations enhance risk mitigation and provide access to cost-efficient capital.
Jetrader: The aviation leasing market has faced significant challenges over the past few years, from COVID-19 disruptions to supply chain constraints and rising interest rates. How have these macroeconomic factors influenced your approach to aircraft leasing and financing?
RK: The macroeconomic factors have necessitated a more adaptive and resilient approach to aircraft leasing and financing. With over half the world’s commercial aircraft leased, the impacts of sustained elevated interest rates have been felt industrywide. Supply chain challenges present another layer of complexity.
Just as we did in our earliest years, we have focused on supporting our airline partners by offering them liquidity and flexible financing solutions as they navigate these challenges. We are constantly deepening our relationships with operators to understand their needs and developing new ways to partner with them. My team and I are on the road engaging with airline leadership teams continuously.
At the same time, we have continued to emphasize the importance of disciplined and conservative underwriting and risk analysis. We believe that our ability to mitigate risk and stay closely linked to the key players in the industry has been crucial in sustaining our growth and supporting the aviation industry.
Jetrader: The demand for midlife aircraft has fluctuated in recent years. How do you assess the market for midlife assets today, and do you anticipate any shifts in leasing trends in the near future?
RK: The market for midlife aircraft remains dynamic, with demand influenced by various factors such as airline fleet strategies and economic conditions. Currently, we see strong demand for midlife assets, driven by airlines seeking cost-effective solutions to expand capacity during a time when the delivery pipeline has been slow. We anticipate continued interest in midlife aircraft, particularly as airlines look to balance fleet renewal with operational efficiency.
Jetrader: How do you view the ongoing challenges related to aircraft supply chain issues and OEM production delays? Has this impacted your leasing strategy or portfolio decisions?
RK: There is no doubt that the aerospace supply chain’s complexity presents a vulnerability. To produce a single aircraft, the equation can include approximately 1,500 companies from 30 countries contributing 4 million parts. This intricate network spans from OEMs at the top through multiple supplier tiers, each with specialized functions from major systems down to individual components.
While challenging, it is our view that these supply chain issues have ultimately reinforced the value proposition of experienced aircraft lessors who can navigate these complexities while providing reliable aircraft solutions to airlines when OEM deliveries remain uncertain.
Jetrader: As the aviation industry continues its recovery, what are the biggest risks and opportunities you see for lessors and investors in the space?
RK: In our risk assessment framework, we carefully monitor multiple factors that could impact portfolio performance. These include airline operational metrics, geopolitical developments, supply chain disruptions and passenger demand. Elevated interest rates and shifts in input costs (particularly labor and fuel) are key factors in the equation for the airlines. The interplay between macroeconomic factors and geopolitical tensions creates additional complexity, with potential impacts including airspace closures, route restrictions and heightened security measures.
However, these challenges also present opportunities for strategic growth and innovation. Lessors can capitalize on the increasing demand for flexible leasing solutions and the need for fleet modernization. In a dynamic marketplace, the aircraft supply-demand imbalance and production delays, among other complexities, can present opportunities for an experienced and well-prepared lessor. We believe that savvy financiers with the specialized expertise to operate in the aircraft finance sector will be able to find compelling risk-return opportunities while supporting the industry’s growth.
Jetrader: How does Carlyle Aviation Partners approach sustainability, and do you see potential in financing next-generation aircraft or alternative fuels?
RK: The aviation industry as a whole has demonstrated an increasing interest in sustainability. Fundamentally, more efficient operations are good for business. Given that fuel costs can comprise up to 30% of an airline’s expenditures, fuel burn reduction will translate to improvements to the bottom line.
This isn’t simply a matter of reducing emissions for environmental reasons, but this benefits airlines financially as well. More fuel-efficient aircraft reduce operating costs for an airline. We are actively financing new aircraft through our new aircraft order book and our pre-delivery financing program, as well as sale- leasebacks.
While Carlyle Aviation as a business unit does not focus on alternative fuels, Carlyle is a leader today in the sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) business. Carlyle owns two different energy businesses that sell SAF to airlines. Those companies are committed to spending approximately US$7B on energy transition CAPEX through 2030, including to grow their SAF production capacity.
We’ve partnered with airlines seeking to incorporate technologies such as SAF into their operations. When one of our lessees, SATA Airlines, wanted to operate their first passenger flight with SAF, our team jumped on board (literally and figuratively), with our chief technical officer Rob Taylor flying out to join the crew on SATA Airlines’ maiden SAF voyage from mainland Portugal to the Azores. This collaboration involved energy partners Galp and NESTE and demonstrated our commitment to supporting the industry’s decarbonization journey.
We hope to be able to continue partnering with airlines as the industry works to improve its sustainability profile.
Jetrader: Do you see any shifts in financing structures or investor appetite for aviation assets as interest rates remain high and the economic landscape continues to evolve?
RK: The higher interest rate environment has naturally made investors more selective, placing greater emphasis on manager experience, asset quality and structural protections. We’re pleased with the strong demand we’ve seen for our recent securitizations. Our February 2025 issuance attracted more investors than previous deals, including first-time participants in both our asset shelf and the aviation asset class overall. Generally, aviation assets continue to attract investment due to their tangible nature, contractual cashflows and potential for capital appreciation.
Jetrader: What leadership lessons have you learned from growing Apollo Aviation into what is now Carlyle Aviation Partners?
RK: I think a good leader should always mind the day-to-day business and strive for excellence. What I mean is: It’s your daily business that pays the bills and keeps the lights on. You can’t lose sight of this when you are an entrepreneur. However, you must also keep one eye on opportunities, whether those may be acquisitions or new lines of business.
Strong leadership must also be able to inspire and guide a team. I’ve always wanted to be the leader who people want to follow because they are inspired and feel that they are a part of something special. I have always worked within the organization — my door is always open — and I am very transparent with our leadership team as to our goals and objectives.
You also need to be able to clearly articulate your goals, objectives and core vision to your banks, investors and customers. We are in a business that requires us to build, grow and maintain long-term relationships. Our partners need to know who we are and what our core values are, and we are proud to share that vision.
I can’t end this answer without sharing one key phrase I live by: “Be kind to everyone.” You never know the full story when you are working with or doing business with other people. Never forget who you are. Set an example you would be proud of if your children, your parents or your friends were standing behind you watching. As leaders, we need to set the tone and the stage for others.
Jetrader: Carlyle Aviation Partners operates globally with lessees in 57 countries. How do you navigate the complexities of different regulatory environments and market conditions across various regions?
RK: Navigating the complexities of different regulatory environments and market conditions requires a deep understanding of local regulations and strong relationships with regional stakeholders. We maintain dedicated regional teams with local expertise who understand the nuances of operating in different jurisdictions. These professionals build relationships with local aviation authorities, legal advisers and industry partners to stay ahead of regulatory changes and market developments. Our global presence coupled with our consolidated commercial function allows us to share best practices across regions while adapting to local requirements. Furthermore, the dedicated teams in each market work closely with lessees to address challenges and seize opportunities, ensuring that we remain agile and responsive to changing conditions.
Jetrader: What advice would you give to young professionals looking to build a career in aircraft leasing and financing?
RK: The business that young professionals are entering today is not the same one that I joined 30 years ago. Today’s industry is quite mature and dominated by institutional capital. Using AI tools to harness the enormous amounts of data we have will make you much more valuable as a team member. You will thrive by networking with your peers, especially those who are in your age group; someday when you become a senior team member or leader, those people will be your counterparties, as the people my age will be retired.
Also, be prepared to travel; high-value contributions will always require it. While credit research and underwriting may be augmented and overtaken by AI technology, dealmaking and relationship-building will never move away from in-person meetings.
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